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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.09.05 09:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
ive never enjoyed questing in video games. so the less effort CCP puts into missions the better for me. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.09.05 23:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Loyal Follower wrote:Ciaphas Cyne wrote:ive never enjoyed questing in video games. so the less effort CCP puts into missions the better for me. That's why the proposal is to provide us, at least the tools for all of us who enjoy them. Everyone enjoys different things :) We should make an effort to cater for as much of that as possible or at least give the ability for players to make their own fun.
oh i was just being snarky. im sure the PvE lovers here deserve more missions. Ive just never felt that style of gameplay was fun. perhaps getting the rewards are fun but its like industry, once you know what to do its just "click the button, wait for cookie". There is only so much one can do with NPCs when you have no twitch-style gameplay. I could kill NPC ***** in COD when i was 15 for hours and hours. I get insanely bored killing NPC ships in this game in under 5 minutes. Lock, F1, rinse, repeat. Occasionally its "Lock, F1, Oh no swtich ammo!, F1, rinse, repeat" but thats not much better.
so if its not inherently fun, questing has to provide something to the game. Most MMOs use questing to give experience (the real kind and the unit of character progression) or to gather resources. However, we are given a million ways to make ISK, and aside from basic flight control, the missions dont really teach much technique. (maybe thats something that can be added, or something i could just be missing)
So yea i guess i could just be like "well thats not my style of play..." but really i dont know how many folks would do missions just to do them. Take away all the rewards of PvP and people are still gonna shoot each other... because its damn fun and mentally stimulating. Take away mission rewards and i think you would lose all interest in them.
At the end of the day this is a game and content shouldn't be designed around what it provides. They should be designed to be fun! Regardless of the rewards given! Thats hardly an issue exclusive to EVE though. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.09.06 18:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Higgs Foton wrote:
its about ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK ISK oh, and about ISK as well.
So missions. Keep them predictable. Have a few which has something like a 10% chance to spawn a faction ship with nice lewts. Maybe add a few to the pool. Not to difficult. Just fun shooting some red crosses. Making lotsa ISK. Have items in LP shop only costing LP and not ISK. That kinda stuff.
What we want is more ISK! We don;t want more challenges. Not in PVE anyway. :)
this opinion is generally only held by two types of folks:
1- those whose real life is so sad they need a virtual one to feel accomplished
2- game devs
games are meant to be entertaining! they are not meant to trick you into a false sense of accomplishment. I understand MMOs need time sinks or the cash flow stops, but devs shouldn't be making "the grind" the whole game. Its lazy, and gives devs a crutch. They say: "ok so we have XYZ fun content in game already. We can either make more inherently fun game-play, or we can get greedy and bank off the fun content we already have. just add time traps to keep players from that content, and boom we dont need to add more fun!"
TLDR: what good is fake currency when the game you earned it in isnt fun on a base level? If you wouldnt do a mission for free then they shouldnt be in the game. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
21
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Posted - 2013.09.06 22:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Springjill wrote:Ciaphas Cyne wrote:TLDR: what good is fake currency when the game you earned it in isnt fun on a base level? If you wouldnt do a mission for free then they shouldnt be in the game. So why do we have rewards at all? Or persistend universes, for that sake. Everything should be a very much fun puzzle bubble clone. Rewards are part of the fun. This game is this successful partly because of its economy, of the tough/dark/elitist attitude, and so on. Bragging rights are paramount in most games, in eve they are CURRENCY. And you manage to claim if you wouldn't do it for free it shouldn't be in the game. Way to understand how a game works.
"rewards" in a game are there to keep you paying. what you see as a reward for doing something is actually just the release of a time sink so you dont get to the main content too fast. Im not unrealistic and I understand that within these time sinks flavor and backstory can develop; its not all about the cash. BUT currently, in EVE, missions are all grind, no fun...for me. Just me. Not saying you cant really enjoy the gameplay as is. I just dont. Puzzles are not the answer...never said anythinhg about specific styles of play, by the way. just that it should be **FUN**
we are all too used to putting up with "the grind" when it is, in fact, not needed. If the gameplay can stand on its own, like PvP can, then you dont need that imaginary carrot you seem to have so much fun chasing.
i just hope that game makers everywhere understand that there are some people who are interested in an experience, who are interested in having our minds stretched, and who do not prioritize the acquisition of wealth just for the sake of it. just like in the real world, money is useless unless you spend it. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 22:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
sorry i broke up your post but i dig everything you said. especially the immersion aspect of it. make us wanna help these agents! |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 20:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Springjill wrote:
This has been said over and over - yet it does not add variability. Simple difference does not grant variability, just randomness. Your preparations will be exactly identical for all missions, because you'll be unable to prepare - your choices are meaningless as you've got no information to base them on. The only thing you can do is scout, get back home, change fit and get back there - which few will do.
Thus, randomization basically REMOVES options, you'll just make the massive tank more of a dominant strategy.
yea alot of these kinds of ideas dont seem to add anything. any suggestions of "make them harder" or "random NPCs" arent changing the gameplay and as Springjill mentioned, dont change the meta-game much either. What we need are ways to make locking a target and pressing F1 not the entire mission. Im particularly fond of the ideas for "escort" style missions and also the "support" style where you are part of a larger NPC fleet. atleast these ideas add some flavor and variety...hopefully they can inspire some new strategies as well.
anyone who talks about the rewards from missions not being high enough are simply lazy carebears who want more for doing nothing. the problems that prevent missions from being entertaining have nothing to do with what loot you get after. I dont wanna base my free time around fake wealth acquisition because thats not fun for me. if you are doing something in a game simply so you can do another activity in that same game...you are being scammed by lazy devs. if its not fun by itself, its worthless. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
22
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Posted - 2013.09.09 22:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lumirinne wrote:I once had this crazy thought that id like to smuggle Minmatar slaves out of Amarr Empire for LP
this is my number one wanted feature!
there are a few threads floating around...one dating back from '06 i think...about this concept. but its abundantly clear that EVE players want to interact with the slave trade. I cant think of a more polarizing RP theme and i cant think of anything better to base new missions around.
i dont wanna turn this thread into another "let us free slaves" post but any missions that could allow us to
-free slaves upon acquiring them (they could turn into freedom fighters, or militia, or just tourists)
-smuggle slaves out from amarr and caldari planets/stations
-smuggle slaves to black market slavers in Gal/Mini space
-bounty hunt freed slaves in empire space
-assist resistance movements on planets through the PI UI or set up markets to manufacture slaves
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
24
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:So, how would I go about fixing this? The following suggestions could be used either in combination, or individually.
-Arazel
aside from already being said about 20 times in this thread, how exactly are any of these suggestions going to make missions more exciting? randomizing NPCs leads to more time re-fitting ships or just more ships fit with omni-tank. It doesnt change game-play at all. randomizing spawn points would add slight variability and to be honest im a little surprised that doesnt already happen; but again it wont make the mission more fun, just slightly less predictable. In a way, many missions are really just the same "clear the rats" with different spawn points and ships. So this suggestion really just boils down to "make more of the same mission" which we really really dont need.
suggesting changes to mission rewards is really not helpful as they do nothing to make the mission, itself, more interesting. any idea that hinges on reward revamp is a non starter by default. The economic implications are delicate to say the least and im willing to bet your just greedy. Same problem with player made missions. They will be universally min-maxed and predictable. Least risk allowed for highest reward allowed and thats, again, just greedy. Also if you think CCP is going to be interested in any sort of profit sharing....well...id say you're high but so am I and that still doesn't make any sense. The only folks who will be getting paid to code missions are CCP employees.
What we need are ideas that fundamentally change the grind! Not ideas that make the grind more fiscally attractive, not ideas that make the grind MORE cookie-cutter.
Missions need to draw the player in and create that feeling of importance. Tasks that go beyond the very base mechanics of the game are needed.
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
24
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Posted - 2013.09.12 02:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Skalle Pande wrote:Interesting thread. I agree: Missions are too boring and repetitive, should be revamped. But a lot can be done without having to remake everything from scratch, not all changes involve lots of coding, I should think.
.
again we have more suggestions involving what missions should do for the player and what rewards we should get.
THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT!
edit: what I do like are your ideas on rat AI. Of course better rats would mean better missions. I also like the idea of having more interaction with the scenery in a given mission even though that could imply more payout per mission.
If it isnt fun, it doesnt matter what you get for doing it. Also the time it takes to slowboat around a mission and warp to other systems is important. It creates more choices for the player which is always good.
"do i sacrifice that extra tank mod to go a little faster? or do i play it safe and complete less missions per hour"
those are good questions to ask yourself. |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 06:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lumirinne wrote:Ciaphas Cyne wrote:how exactly are [eg. adding randomness] going to make missions more exciting? The million dollar answer Skalle Pande wrote:forces you to improvise a bit Ps. mission runners switch to Fixed Fits after 6 months of SP. Or at least there is no reason to refit in between, except for maybe the bonus rooms in Angel Extra and WC. So much of randomness becoming a reason why people would shift to omnitank.
I dont consider refitting your ship "improvisation" nor do I consider it a viable solution to alleviating the tedium that is the mission grind.
What will change in the game play of the actual mission when you implement the randomness that has been suggested ad naseum here? |
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Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 06:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Lets face it, with the exception of randomness most of the fixes listed by players might as well be just go fly Incuriosns;
And again, people not realizing you will kill an entire profession (rigmaking) and cripple non mining industrialists.
Sounds a lot harder to revamp missions than most people think IMHO.
I totally respect your desire to keep your profession and make money. There is nothing inherent, however, in ANY idea here that would lead to a drop off or change in your industry. Its strange to me that you single out the idea of randomness as the exception. If you can image a scenario with randomized missions and a reward per hour rate that matches your current one...why cant you extend that concept to the other ideas?
The loot/ISK you get for missions can and should remain where it is. If the desired result is no change in the current economy then simply ensure the same reward per hour rate. This is a computer-simulated world so we have the luxury of being able to manipulate values like that.
Sounds alot easier than most people think... |
Ciaphas Cyne
Turalyon Plus
Turalyon Alliance
24
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 08:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:
No, not at all.
I don't make rigs but I sell salvage to people that do. Shitloads of the stuff. Less ships(in missions) means less rigs.
you havent understood a word ive said have you?
less ships does not necessarily mean less rigs. ill say it again: EVE is a game, and values can be manipulated. |
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